Who is Dustin Poirier?
Joe sits down with Dustin Poirier, a mixed martial artist, entrepreneur, and philanthropist.
TLDR — Key Topics and Moments
- 01Dustin Poirier discusses how weight cutting in MMA is dangerous and extreme, with fighters cutting 40-50 pounds before fights despite California implementing percentage-based limits
- 02Joe and Dustin debate UFC weight classes, agreeing more divisions are needed and that heavyweight should potentially be unlimited to prevent dangerous cuts
- 03Deep dive into MMA history covering pioneers like Fedor, Anderson Silva, BJ Penn era fighters, and how current fighters don't respect the history of the sport
- 04Discussion of fighter pay compared to other major sports leagues, with Dustin defending the reality that UFC contracts are binding but acknowledging disparities
- 05Analysis of how steroids and TRT shaped MMA especially in Pride, K1, and early UFC, with specific examples of Alistar Overeem, Brock Lesnar, and others
- 06Dustin talks about training at American Top Team, dealing with overly aggressive sparring partners, and how MMA gyms have evolved since the early 2000s
The Show
Dustin Poirier comes on JRE and immediately talks about how good it feels to eat without counting calories now that he's retired from fighting. He's sitting around 190 pounds, which is heavy for a lightweight, and it's wild to see him not obsessing over macros for the first time in 20 years. His daughter has even absorbed this behavior and checks ingredient labels at Whole Foods, which Joe finds hilarious.
The conversation quickly pivots to weight cutting, which is obviously Dustin's biggest pet peeve about fighting. He and Joe are completely aligned that the extreme weight cuts are insane and dangerous. They talk about how fighters cut 40 to 50 pounds in the final days before weighting in, then fight 24 hours later in one of the most dangerous sports on the planet. Dustin's experienced this countless times and has had moments where he thought he might pass out just standing up too quickly. Joe brings up Pereira cutting 25 plus pounds to fight at 185, showing up to the octagon at 225 pounds. That's psychotic.
They discuss how California instituted percentage-based weight cut limits around 15 to 20 percent of body weight, which seems like the move. More weight classes would solve this completely though. The UFC could do what boxing does with way more divisions. Joe and Dustin both agree on this, but also acknowledge that more weight classes means more confusion with title situations. Still, it's better than having someone cut 40 pounds and nearly die doing it.
The conversation drifts into a surprisingly deep MMA history lesson. They talk about Fedor, who never fought in the UFC despite being arguably the greatest heavyweight ever, because his management wanted a percentage of the promotion on top of their purse. The UFC wasn't having it. They get into how Pride was the juiciest organization ever, with contracts literally stating they don't test for steroids. Enson Inoue told Joe this directly. It was basically a green light to get as jacked as possible.
Dustin and Joe go back and forth on legendary fighters who don't get enough credit: Eve Edwards, Josh Thompson, Gilbert Melendez, Diego Sanchez, and Rich Franklin come up. They lament how younger fighters don't know these guys and don't respect the history. The conversation about heavyweight champions is hilarious because they show clips and go through the evolution. They talk about how Tim Sylvia was uncoordinated but always down to fight, and how his knees were pigeon toed in this weird way that supposedly could be corrected with proper training.
The TRT era gets thoroughly dissected. Joe and Dustin talk about how basically everyone was juicing back then, but it was only an intelligence test if you could pass the fight night drug tests. Alistar Overeem comes up multiple times as the best TRT argument ever. Dude went from a jacked light heavyweight to looking like a superhero. Joe brings up that Overeem was also a K1 Grand Prix champion, Abu Dhabi grappling trials winner, and had guillotine submissions in MMA. That's a level of skill that transcends one sport.
They get into how steroids probably made fighters more durable, not just bigger. When Bigfoot Silva was on TRT, he was incredibly durable. When he got off, he started getting knocked out. Same thing happened with Chris Weidman eventually. Brock Lesnar and Mark Hunt's fight gets brought up as possibly the juiciest matchup ever, with Mark Hunt now trying to sue over it. The consensus is that testing back then was a joke because it was only done on fight night, which is basically asking guys to have good chemists in their corner.
Key Moments
Best Quotes
"It feels good to eat and not count carbohydrates and calories. For the last 20 years I've been macro counting."
"The weight cutting is the worst thing about fighting. You're getting someone to the brink of death 24 hours before they have an MMA fight, which is one of the most dangerous sports in the world."
"If they had a 165 pound weight class, Diego Sanchez might have been the champion of the world."
"Fedor's management were a bunch of very dangerous dudes. The UFC tried but they wanted a percentage of the promotion, not just a purse."
"When Alistar was on TRT, he looked like a superhero. That's the best argument for TRT ever. Looked like the side of a barn."
Products and Books Mentioned
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Full Transcript (click to expand)
Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. >> The Joe Rogan Experience. >> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY NIGHT. All day. >> What's happening, >> my friend? Good to be back, bro. >> Dustin Pouet, the light heavyweight. >> It's thick boy summer. >> You're looking healthy, son. >> Yeah, like 190, man. >> You look good, man. >> I feel good, dude. It feels good to eat and not count carbohydrates and calories. >> Yeah, we were talking about that. we like still like a little part of you is like looks at meals and goes uh >> well I mean for the last 20 years I've been macro and you know I knew I had a fight coming up even if I didn't have a fight I had to be in striking range from 155 right >> so I was always looking at the back of every label being real cautious what I eat it's like ingrained in my daughter now when we go to Whole Foods she'll grab something off the counter and say dad it only has three ingredients like she knows what's up >> well it's good to think that way anyway >> for sure >> especially with the ingredients >> yeah she that's the first thing she goes too. Like if she wants some chips, it only has five ingredients. That's like a thing >> for her when we're shopping. >> Yeah. Well, that's smart, man. That's cool. You're raising them, right? >> I'm trying to, bro. I'm trying to put the stuff I learned in fighting, you know, all the years >> to good use. >> It's uh it is kind of crazy. I think it's the worst thing about fighting is the weight cutting. >> Can you imagine if everybody just First of all, I tell me if you agree, but I think the UFC needs way more weight cut. >> I do too. Way more. I do too because the gaps are so big. I mean, just if you look at boxing compared to mixed martial arts, the the the jumps in weight are so big from each weight class, but also all the shows they're putting on, they'd have more titles, more belts, more big fights. But also, man, with that, there's going to be a lot of people trying to cut a little bit extra, trying to be double champ in every weight class. I think it does cause more confusion. >> Yeah, but that's better than the extreme weight cuts. The extreme weight cuts are ter. You saw that dude a few um like I guess it was about three events ago who face planted and got removed off the card. Yeah, >> that is crazy. You're getting someone to the brink of death 24 hours before they have an MMA fight, which is the most >> if not the most dangerous sport, one of the most dangerous sports in the world. And you're doing something to your body to extremely weaken it 24 hours before you fight. It's bananas. >> Dude, I did it so many times. You preach it to the choir. I know, but >> there's been so many times I felt like that, like stand up too quick after a weight cut and I'm like, you know, I might go down. >> Oh, dude. I I mean, I can only imagine when you see someone like Pereira that's cutting like 25 lbs and more when he was 185. >> I mean, that guy was fighting inside the octagon at 225 and weighing in at 185 24 hours before, right? >> That's crazy. >> And even when he's big, he's lean, you know? It's not like he's fluffy. Well, they say that when you're muscular, it's easier to cut weight. It's water. >> Yeah. Which is counterintuitive. You see a fat guy like, "Oh, that guy can cut weight." But you really can't cuz you can't depen your fat, >> right? Not in a training camp's time, 8 weeks, 10 weeks, you can't lose like 30 pounds of fat. But >> I don't think I said like it was a real word. >> You can dehydrate yourself. >> I don't think it is a word. Depish. >> Well, if you can replenish, >> right? But no one says depenish. Depish. >> No, you say deplete. But I just threw it out there like it was real. >> I don't think is a word. >> Is that a word? >> Yeah, >> it is. >> I don't think I've ever used it that way. >> Oh, okay. >> Nice, man. >> Nice. I got lucky. That was just luck. Um, but I talked to Hunter about it, Hunter Campbell, and we're we're trying to figure out a way um without It has to be more weight classes. I mean, California instituted a bunch of different weight classes. I think um I think they were doing it every 10 pounds. >> I think California also did like a percentage of your your body weight like I don't know what was it 15 20% you couldn't dehydrate more than that. >> That guy Andy Foster is on the ball >> and I think that's good you know. >> Yeah. >> 20% or or whatever some kind of rule where guys aren't cutting 50 lb 40%. >> Still crazy. Yeah. It's still crazy. >> I mean if you're a lot of weight. >> Yeah you're right. 200 lb 40 lb. I mean >> it's a lot of weight. Well, that's another thing that freaks boxers out when I tell them that there's a weight limit at heavyweight >> 265. >> That doesn't make any sense. I go, I agree. >> Why is there a weight limit for heavyweight? That's crazy, >> dude. That that gap too, like 205, anything over that, you can be 210 to 265. That's crazy. >> Crazy. a 50 pound gap that you you know but >> well heav...
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